We live in a world where our civilization and daily lives depend upon institutions, infrastructure, and technological substrates that are _complicated_ but not _unknowable_. Join Patrick McKenzie (patio11) as he discusses how decisions, technology, culture, and incentives shape our finance, technology, government, and more, with the people who built (and build) those Complex Systems.
Patrick McKenzie (patio11) is joined by Max Spero, co-founder and CEO of Pangram Labs, which builds models that identify AI-generated text and images. Max goes under the hood to explain how AI detection actually works. They also discuss the institutions that quietly assumed writing was expensive: credit bureaus that negotiated the right to shred templated dispute letters, grant committees where reading the application is five percent of the work, and unemployment offices staffed for a world where claims cannot plausibly rise two hundredfold.
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Full transcript available here: https://www.complexsystemspodcast.com/how-ai-detection-actually-works-with-pangrams-max-spero/
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Presenting Sponsors: Mercury & Granola
Complex Systems is presented by Mercury—radically better banking for founders. Mercury Spend hands your team and agents their own cards with limits you set once, so nobody waits on you to approve a SaaS invoice and nobody chases a receipt. Apply online in minutes at https://mercury.com/.
If meetings consistently leave you with hazy action items and lost context, Granola handles the transcription so you can actually participate and gives you searchable notes afterward. Try it free at granola.ai/complexsystems with code COMPLEXSYSTEMS
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Links:
- Pangram Labs: https://textguard.ai/
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Timestamps:
(00:00) Intro
(00:27) Why AI detection exists
(01:42) Friction as a rate limiter
(05:42) What Pangram actually does
(06:57) Authorship identification at scale
(11:01) Common Crawl and the crawling arms race
(15:52) Being in the weights
(18:08) Ghostwriting letters to banks
(19:45) Templated letters and the FCRA loophole
(22:38) The anti-memetic property of LLM text
(25:28) Value above the weights
(27:03) What happens to programmers
(30:19) Sponsors: Mercury | Granola
(33:39) Jevons Paradox and the compiler
(36:44) What comes after the coding harness
(40:19) Mode collapse and the dinner recommendation problem
(43:00) The patio11 fan blog
(45:58) Cognitive surplus and the dead internet
(49:40) Is this fight winnable?
(54:35) Reputation and disclosure norms
(58:02) Training on books and moral standing
(01:01:52) Attention, phones, and what we’ve gained
(01:04:17) Wrap
The official podcast of the Santa Fe Institute. Subscribe now and be part of the exploration!
Guest:
- Melanie Mitchell, Resident Professor, Santa Fe Institute
Hosts: Abha Eli Phoboo
Producer: Katherine Moncure
Podcast theme music by: Mitch Mignano
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More info:
- Tutorial: Fundamentals of Machine Learning
- Lecture: Artificial Intelligence
- SFI programs: Education
- Competition: ARC Prize
Books:
- Gödel, Escher, Bach: an Eternal Golden Braid by Douglas Hofstadter
- Artificial Intelligence: A Guide for Thinking Humans by Melanie Mitchell
- Complexity: A Guided Tour by Melanie Mitchell
Talks:
- The Future of Artificial Intelligence by Melanie Mitchell
- Introduction: AI and the Barrier of Meaning 2 by Melanie Mitchell
- Conceptual Abstraction and Analogy in Natural and Artificial Intelligence by Melanie Mitchell
Papers & Articles:
- “The metaphors of artificial intelligence,” in Science (November 14, 2024), doi: 10.1126/science.adt6140
- “Using counterfactual tasks to evaluate the generality of analogical reasoning in Large Language Models,” in arXiv (February 14, 2024), doi.org/10.48550/arXiv.2402.08955
- “Comparing humans, GPT-4, and GPT-4V on abstraction and reasoning tasks, ” (Proceedings of the LLM-CP Workshop, AAAI 2024), arXiv (December 11, 2023), doi.org/10.48550/arXiv.2311.09247
- “The debate over understanding in AI’s large language models,” in PNAS (March 21, 2023), doi.org/10.1073/pnas.2215907120
- “The ConceptARC benchmark: evaluating understanding and generalization in the ARC domain,” in Transactions on Machine Learning Research (August 2023), arXiv (May 11, 2023), doi.org/10.48550/arXiv.2305.07141
Discussions about philosophy, psychology, and sociology through the lens of systems thinking.
Explore the myths, mysteries, and medical breakthroughs of the most complex and powerful organ in your body – your brain. Weaving together expert interviews with heartfelt, inspiring snapshots of the patients and family members in the middle of it all, Heather Sherman dives into the latest science on Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s, epilepsy, stroke, concussion, spinal cord injury, brain cancer, chronic pain and other brain diseases and disorders. Along the way she uncovers surprising insights, sheds light on the latest research, and shares heroic, real life stories from the people on the front lines. Brought to you by Krembil Brain Institute at UHN, one of the largest and most comprehensive neurological centres in North America. Learn more about our mission at: http://www.uhn.ca/krembil
In this bonus episode, we delve into the life-changing journey of Carmen Chu, a cancer survivor and mother who was diagnosed with sleep apnea. Carmen shares her struggles with interrupted sleep, fatigue, and the impact on her daily life. She discusses her experience with sleep tests and the transformative benefits of using a CPAP machine.
Additional Resources
UHN’s Centre for Sleep Health and Research
Dr. Frances Chung named UHN Inventor of the Year
Dr. Douglas Bradley featured in KITE Research spotlight: Use of non-invasive breathing device to alleviate obstructive and central sleep apnea improves quality of life
The Your Complex Brain production team is Heather Sherman, Jessica Schmidt, Dr. Amy Ma, Kim Perry, Alley Wilson, Sara Yuan, Meagan Anderi, Liz Chapman, and Lorna Gilfedder.
The Krembil Brain Institute, part of University Health Network, in Toronto, is home to one of the world's largest and most comprehensive teams of physicians and scientists uniquely working hand-in-hand to prevent and confront problems of the brain and spine, such as Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, epilepsy, stroke, spinal cord injury, chronic pain, brain cancer or concussion, in their lifetime. Through state-of-the-art patient care and advanced research, we are working relentlessly toward finding new treatments and cures.
Do you want to know more about the Krembil Brain Institute at UHN? Visit us at: uhn.ca/krembil
To get in touch, email us at krembil@uhn.ca or message us on social media:
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Thanks for listening!